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- Online Dating Etiquette: Five Tips No One Will Tell You
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I throw no stones. If you think you might be a Chatty Cathy or Charlie, here's a test: Do you love the interplay of bass and treble in your own voice? Does silence freak you out more than cancer? Did you raise your hand in third grade even before the teacher asked anything? If you answered yes to any of these, you might need a list of polite questions you can bring along on your dates.
Then dare yourself to get though them all before coffee stains become visible in the cup. After a slew of emails, Chris and I agreed to meet in front of a museum. Approaching in the bright orange jacket I'd "borrowed" from a costume shop, I sported a hippy-fringe purse. But something was off. Chris felt it too, awkwardly standing there in his loafers, pressed slacks, and white oxford. At first I thought we both had on the wrong outfits.
We never saw each other again. This taught me that the more you express your true nature, the greater the risk someone will reject you. We all need to take that chance. If etiquette is a form of civility, the first one we should extend this to is ourselves. I tried to be myself on that first date with my husband, wearing my favorite summer outfit, cat-eye glasses and all.
Throughout our relationship, I've learned a lot about setting boundaries and being more verbal when it comes to my needs. A main reason our marriage works is because we are so mindful when it comes to courtesy and respect. Though it's not always easy. I'm probably not the only person with tips about improved online dating behavior. We all have this knowledge when we remember that in the pursuit of love, caring should be part of the equation.
We want to know what you think. Join the discussion by posting a comment below or tweeting TEDWeekends. However I will do my best to explain the situation as I see it. My answer will likely seem off topic and possibly confusing. Unfortunately the real issue, as is almost always the case with problems we are facing today, exists far beyond the usual scope of answers proffered. For a large society to function social stratification must be present. When a population expands beyond a relatively small number it is impossible for everyone to have an equal voice as the time and energy requirements would preclude the accomplishment of the necessary workloads.
To skirt this issue society requires managerial positions and base labor or worker positions. Just as managers help organize workers the governing of society requires the same type of organization. The answer to this problem would seem to lie in providing an equal education for all. That answer provides a couple glaring issues. First off it is important to recognize that those in positions of prestige will seek to maintain their position and furthermore will seek to promote the inclusion of their offspring into similar positions.
Secondly our education system isn't so much a system of learning as it is a system of training. For our society to function we require managers and workers. If our education system really sought to equalize knowledge our current system would cease to exist. Instead our education system is designed to separate gifted from normal students as potential managers versus the working class.
The design of our education system clearly has its roots in the workings of industry. Teach children to be on time and ready for a full days learning. Teach children to submit to authority early teacher so as to be prepared to submit to those in managerial positions later on. Teach children to seek out permission in regards to bodily functions so as to further separate them from the ability to govern themselves.
Likewise our education system separates children from families to further degrade our communal nature including compassion and empathy and therefore connection to each other. This is where it gets interesting. Consider what we've done so far. Now I'd ask that you reconsider your question. If your question was based upon a society of equals who were all knowledgeable, reasonable, autonomous and yet cooperative we could easily reason that people would treat each other with kindness and respect.
However we've created a system of inequality in which the common citizen holds little if any power and instead lives by the whims of society at large. This system promotes competition as it is undeniably preferable to gain power and move up the social ladder. My contention is that inequality and competition are the precursors of societies ills. Men mistreating women certainly but more to the point people mistreating each other for gain. It seems odd to think that men seeking a partner would act as many so often do but it is important to remember we're not dealing with intellectually compassionate equals.
We're dealing with generations of people that have been bred to compete with one another and ultimately not see each other as equals but as enemies of a sort. We're not killing each other for the most part at least within our own society but we are competing for limited resources to our own detriment. It is important to note that women are playing their own role in this game of losers. Women by evolutionary design primarily revolving around the unequal distribution of effort regarding procreation seek out comfort and safety which play into the unequal distribution of power and wealth.
Early on men realize their ability to find a partner directly correlates to their ability to acquire wealth so as to be a better provider of safety and comfort for a wife and any potential offspring. While it is true a poor man can find a partner it should come as no surprise that the greater wealth a man possesses the more opportunities he has to find a desirable mate. So we are left with a very complicated answer to what seems like a reasonably simple question. Unfortunately we are dealing with complex systems based upon an unequal distribution of wealth, power and knowledge.
My explanation is quite limited in its scope but explains the answer as I see it. Unfortunately the answer I've given also infers similar issues with offline dating as ultimately this has little to do with the internet and more to do with society. The internet plays its own role in this debacle with its inherent anonymity further allowing a debasement of the civilized forms of respect we've come to accept as normal.
Consider for instance civilization isn't so much truly civil as it is civil within the confines of its power structures. Also I can attest to the fact that I currently hold an account on okcupid. I am currently looking for a partner. I have also chosen to abstain from competition regarding wealth and power and instead am attempting to find a place on the fringes of society where I can be myself without harming others. I own very little, earn very little, and struggle to find women willing to get to know someone in my societal position as a potential partner.
Certainly there are many good women open to dating a man such as myself but the difficulty is increased immensely.
Online Dating Etiquette: Five Tips No One Will Tell You
I have to be honest, your reply, while very interesting on societal analysis level, in very interesting, but it is indeed slightly off topic. I am just surprised, being that Website dating starts with writing and pictures, that men put so little effort in writing. It would be like going to a date wearing really sloppy clothes. My question was not based upon a society of equals, but it was based on a society where all have access to school, which is the case in the US.
However biased the system is, we all have choices and access to literacy regardless of gender. I was also not considering dating based on a marketing transaction -men with fat bank accounts and women stuck in comfort zones- but based on feelings and building a life with someone of the opposite sex because when you're with that person, you don't feel like you need or wish to be anywhere else. And that has absolutely nothing to do with bank accounts and comfort zones. But in this country, everything revolves around marketing laws, including what cannot be bought, sold, or quantified.
Which is why I don't have an account, because dating accounts are marketing tools, too. That said, you might run into a human being on one of them at some point, because anything is possible. I really appreciate your succinct description of our issues with marketing in all facets of our life. Regarding the point you have made in regards to how little effort men put into writing as a means of sharing their true selves I would like to suggest that the issue is not limited to men.
I've perused hundreds of women's profiles and I can attest that it is a rare person that writes of themselves in a fashion that isn't simply a marketing job. The vast majority of women's profiles read exactly like a job application. I don't believe the issue has to do with literacy per se. Instead I believe the issue lies with the individuals capacity to think for themselves. I mentioned education as I believe a large part of the intended goal is to afford people the ability to receive instruction.
As opposed to being able to decide whether or not they should be following the instructions. My most recent relationship was with an intelligent and compassionate woman who received a Waldorf education and in turn taught at the Waldorf Highschool she attended. She repeatedly informed me in our year and a half together that she wasn't comfortable with showing me her true self. Instead she often acted in ways to impress me. Even after we'd been together over a year she was still putting on airs. Certainly this could be attributed to my actions. However having lived through the experience I can attest that I strove to make her feel loved and accepted as she was.
Ultimately what I've come to understand is that she has not yet learned to accept herself. I believe this is incredibly common in our society. After all our marketing systems have done a very thorough job of setting impossible and often inane ideals and as we are both aware the primary victims are women. For someone to truly connect with another person and feel completely content with another they must first know and accept themselves. In my forty plus years in America I believe that to be a rarity. I have known people of all ages including countless couples who seem to have a better grasp on celebrities lives than they do on their own.
I can count perhaps a handful of people I've met who have formed their own systems of belief. The vast majority have simply accepted whatever belief system they were fed without question. It seems as if very few people have done the internal work required to truly know oneself. That was one of the main points I was attempting to get across.
My long winded explanation may have been an ineffectual attempt at explaining my reasoning behind this issue. Thank you for sharing your insight and reasoning behind your disinterest in online dating. In regards to myself I have done a lot of work to understand the world in my own fashion as opposed to what I was taught.
My dating profile is quite lengthy and is intended to share who I am as a human being in hopes of finding someone that has done similar work. What I have shared of myself also has the benefit of eliminating a lot of potential conflicts that typically arise in conversations with people as part of the process of getting to know one another. I have no way of knowing whether or not any of this matters but I figured that trying a new tact certainly cannot cause me to be more single than I already am.
I wonder if the information provided about there being more men than women is for a particular age group? I am reasonably attractive and several of my photos were taken by a professional not altered in any way-I wanted it to be clear that they are really like me and give the date taken. I've put a lot of effort into my profile so that it gives unique info about me and describes the qualities of a good guy are to me and despite having at least one hundred matches in my region I haven't received any communication sincc e the first week when 2 men contacted me with questions. So I have communicated with several men.
Are all the men contacting the same small subset of women or are they to lazy to communicate at all. Several of the men I communicated with then viewed my profile and neither responded or blocked me. It takes only 2 clicks to block a profile. I find it inconsiderate. I think I'll connect with you Intellectually. It remains to be seen if I'll also connect spiritualily and emotionally. I'm 19 going on 20 and the first messages are from guys way older than me at 30 and up to their 50's. Where are the dudes closer to my age! Seriously why, Even when I dont have a picture Well, some men prefer younger women maybe for their youth or maybe they feel they can manipulate them before they get older?
Some older women are bitter after a divorce or bad relationships with bad men could be another reason. I am almost 53 and no offense prefer women around my own age, say 47 to I have had younger women in their early 20's to 30's interested on Match: I was married for 24 years, been divorced 3 years. I am 5'7 in shape and the dating world seems wicked since I was married and I have dated some attractive ladies. It does work but the odds are seriously stacked against men. Women, if they know their value and are pretty, want Superman.
They block or ignore them Online dating sucks for men. Women have to weed through the countless messages determining who the winner is. Pretty accurate assessment when it comes to men. Let's cut to the chase. I have been on and off dating sites for 8 years. Had a couple of relationships but from women, here are some of what I get regularly: To attract men, the majority of women describe themselves as "athletic and toned", "liberal", "love the outdoors" and most of them kayak, mountain climb, zip line, hang glide, parachute, run marathons, swim, etc.
When do they find time for a relationship? I don't think that many men on these sites fit that criteria. Men also exchange messages online and all of a sudden it goes dead but women are online still talking with others but not responding to your last message I have read "no receding hairlines", "no skin problems", "no facial hair", "only vegans should write back", "if you did not vote for Barack Obama don't bother replying", "if you are voting for Trump please don't email me", "no men with brown eyes", "only blue eyes please" and even "if you have toe nail fungus don't bother contacting me".
I could write a book. BTW, these same women call themselves "down to earth" and "looking for a great guy who is thoughtful, caring, a good communicator, financially sound, etc. Myself, I have a great job, financially set, not picky, average looking, 5'7" pounds, etc.
But women are looking for George Clooney, Brad Pitt hey ladies here is your chance I'd say caring who the person is going to vote for is important. If you have liberal views you want someone else who does too. If you have conservative political views you might not get along with a liberal political view. I personally don't even want to be friends with anyone who would vote for Trump. Why would I be willing to date someone who does? I think if it comes down to values and lifestyle choices, it's ok to state those. But yes, requiring a specific height, hairline, etc is very silly.
You also do have to be attracted to the person. As someone who has dated someone just because they like their personality and has tried to look past their appearance, I can tell you it has lead to be not wanting sex. Now if the guy is ok with no sex, then sure it doesn't matter what someone looks like. But yeah media and society has screwed with both genders view on what is and isn't attractive and that can make online dating, and non-online dating very difficult.
I dated a Liberal woman and no conflicts arose from our political differences. I find it troubling you wouldn't even want to be friends with someone who would vote for Trump, or even someone who wouldn't be friends with another who voted for Hillary. You sound grossly intolerant of other people's views.
You should be open to people with differing views than your own, otherwise you will fall into engaging in groupthink and confirmation bias. In other words, you will not learn much in this world seeking out people who will just agree and affirm your opinions on life. You grow by seeking those out who can show you a different perspective. In my experience, I've found people like you frustrating to say the least.
My favorite moment is when they stop messaging in the middle of conversation. You try again and again but there is no response although she's online, like she had a heart attack suddenly. Another one is when they don't show up. First date and without any warning just no show. Then no response of course. Love those moments especially when they call men creeps.
After several contacts like this in the row, men can start acting creepy, I guess. They learn very quickly to not give any respect to women because they are not going to get it back even when everything is going very well. Well, I'm not there yet but I get pissed sometimes, it's nothing like in real life. I never thought that beeing 5.
Asking women to give you a chance and message you back after looking at your message and profile is like women asking you to message and reach out whenyou have zero attraction, nothing in common and zero interest in taking to. It goes both ways. Just because you're intrested and they aren't doesn't mean they want bad boys and smooth talkers. Men you don't reach out to women you're not attracted to, don't except women to make the exceptions lol. The difference, Brooke, is that men find a wide variety of women attractive.
Women all find the exact same men attractive. The popularity of online dating is increasing day by day as some of amazing apps are already out in the market. We can expect some more apps which will be safe and great to use in the future. I know some girls might not want to hear or accept this but it's a reality. I'm not a pig and I have good intentions, I want nothing more than a real relationship with someone I'm mutually attracted to. But if I can't have that I will take what I want and go from there. Ladies, my advice is if you take the best men available to you online this is likely to happen.
Remember, we men are taking our best options because we're in a totally different ballpark. We get messages once every couple weeks if we're lucky, you gals get up to hundreds in that time-frame and rarely message us back. It sets you up to be shallow. I probably would be too if the roles were reversed. First let me say that I am by no means attacking any one person in particular and I though it may sound like it at times, the statements I am making are simply my opinion and only my opinion.
Beyond that, I do not pretend to be an expert on what women want or what men do incorrectly.
Online Dating Is Frustrating for Men
I am merely being as honest as the others on this site to whom I say thank you. So please, know I am coming from the same frustrated place as the thoughtful and honest men and women who have commented here. I only hope to give my viewpoint to perhaps shed some light however dim, LOL on the incorrect, ill-advised thoughts and information that men make about women vs.
And that men and women can somehow reach a semblance of mutual understanding. It is never my goal to exacerbate the problem or further drive a wedge between us. So- having said all that — whew! Allow me to explain: See, we women love sex, too depending, of course , but we are not coming from the same, ahem, overwhelming pressure point as most men. And so do women. We are human, too. Yes, I admit, we too have eyes and are attracted to someone good looking but guess what? And with men, it is.
I cannot speak for all women nor would I claim to,, but I know enough of us sufficient to go out on a limb here and say the following with measured confidence: And they would not be lying about that, either. A true nice guy, in our minds is a man who treats us with mutual respect, And those guys are cherished and sought after, not overlooked. Or, if you are, maybe you are not allowing that to shine through in your profile somehow?
Please get it straight, please. I am referring to non-physical, non-employment or money-based attributes which we women, go figure , are truly looking for in a partner. Meanwhile, you guys are doing the ole, what is it? We have to expend a large chunk of our lives and real energy thinking about crap you would never dream of,.
Fear and risk are a real thing and do play into the whole online dating thing for us, as much as you might not want to believe it or ever even factor it in. So please, try to remember things beyond your own paradigm. We will do the same for you. Good luck out there everyone! You did spend a lot of time on your tex to clarify the situation! I salute you for this effort.
I do understand and identify to all of what you said. I am only saddenned that the phenomenon of online dating is a speculative viscious circle where the more men need to date someone, the more selective because submerged women are and therefore the more men need to date someone! II don't think you are spitting on us and I understand that it is a delicate matter on both sides. Reversing the mechanism will take a lot of goodwilling people ready to change their attitudes! One guy sent me this message: I can make sure you are kept well dressed and have all the latest handbags.
All you have to do is give it to me whenever I want it. My response seeing as men complain that they don't get a response and women are just being rude: I can buy these things on my own as I am self sufficient and make my own way in this world. You sound like you are looking for a whore. You may want to spend your time at a brothel instead of wasting your time on dating sites.
You are everything I am looking for to complete my life. I think we could be great together. My response after looking at his profile or lackthereof as a headless torso with only a vague description of what his interests are or any indication that he has a personality: I am very flattered by your compliment.
How do you reject someone online dating
I can foresee major problems in this relationship already. You and I can be great together, and that's all we need. You are my perfect dream girl. Sound fair to you? I can dig what you were trying to say here Cause there is a lot of substance. But some of what you say completely contradicts the evidence that has been compiled on this subject.
This isn't an opinion So while I appreciate your input and I do feel there was a lot to gain from it You are completely wrong in your assessment that women aren't as shallow as men. If anything because they have so many choices They filter them by looks. It's sad but true. Society in general and men in particular are very critical of women's looks. Many unattractive men have beautiful partners but rarely do you see the opposite. You rarely see unattractive women in movies or on the news media and yet there are many men who are not gorgeous who have successful careers in these fields.
Women know, from their teens, that their prospects throughout their lives will be limited if they are not beautiful. Most men, especially attractive ones, will not give them the time of day if they are not a "10" or close. Women tend to focus on relationships and family while men are driven by their desire for sex.
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The notion that women are only motivated by looks in the search for a partner is pretty far fetched when you consider the natural tendencies of women and men. I think you're close but still off the mark. The only unattractive men with beautiful wives are those with money. I think this statement is incorrect:. Women often call unattractive men without money who flirt with them "creeps", but these are often the same women who welcome the advances of men who are either attractive or are wealthy. You can see this in how most women still expect men to pay for the first date or women joke with their friends that he was "cheap" and in most cases won't go on another date - and this often has no reflection of the actual incomes of the two parties.
Your view as women as inherently more moral than men in the dating game is a bit sexist and outdated to be honest. Women have their unfair standards about men as well, and society strongly supports those in how they socialize young boys. The main difference is people mostly recognize unfair standards they set for women while society has failed terribly at recognizing the unfair standards set for men. Men who are seriously seeking a long term relationship will watch how the woman behaves and he will take what she says with a pinch of salt.
As an older woman 49 , I felt obligated to respond to anyone that contacted me, even it it was to acknowledge we did not have much in common I do believe this is one of the downside of online dating We would never think of behaving like this if meeting someone in person but we think it's ok to do so when behind a keyboard. As mentioned by one of the poster My god you're a saint. Ireally didn't think anyone like you still existed in our society today, I try to do the same but some are so touchy and perhaps so used to ghosting that they lash out, but I still won't stop Your post litterally made my eyes swell and I just nearly cried.
I don't need all women to like me, just a little compassion and empathy The unfortunate aspect of "being polite" or "having respect" for individuals who have taken the time to message you is the percentage of men who then lash out in anger or rage when you do send them a succint, polite "thank you, but I don't think we're a match, but good luck to you" message.
Some men resort to insulting your looks, your weight, your single status "oh, i see you're stuck up and think you're too good for guys. Some go so far as to threaten you physically if they ever see you in public. So, while sending a nice, polite "no thank you" message is a lovely thing to do, I'm afraid to say a number of your more rage-filled brethren have ruined that for you and made women absolutely fearful to even attempt to turn a man's interest down, even if politely. I find the topic of online dating very interesting. I try as much as possible to understand it from both male and female perspectives and I enjoy talking to women about it to see what their experience is like.
I'm not your typical male in online dating, while most of my messages go unanswered I do converse with and meet women online. I've had several relationships from online and I plan on continuing to use it. I'm a 27 year old male and I'm not a "hottie", but I am tall and in shape and maybe that helps me. It seems online dating is starting to get easier for me these days especially.
I'm successful which I do say in my profile, and I'm wealthy which my profile does not say. All this being said, there are some major drawbacks for me. We all have our things we're into but I'm often guessing if I'm even attracted to the women I agree to meet. I take the chance anyways because it's my best option at that time. Some of the women I meet I find attractive, but most of the time they aren't as good looking as girls I would date in real life. As a guy who does really well in a date setting, almost every girl I meet wants to see me again, I'm left frustrated by this.
I know I'm a catch, and I carry that with me but online I rarely have the choice to date women I'm attracted to. They come around once in a while but most don't answer me back. So what do we have here? We have a guy who is dating mostly girls he's not really attracted to because those are his options. But it doesn't end here. I'm human, I like sex, and I will pursue and sleep with girls I'm not totally into if it's been a while.
As a guy who's more successful in online dating than most men I just wanted to share my experience. I know, I'm technically adding to the very problem I'm complaining about by dating and sleeping with women I'm not attracted to. But, can you blame me if that's usually all I can get online? Meet us halfway, you might find a guy who is amazing and will treat you with love and respect. There is a clear divide in what men and women can attain in terms of physical attractiveness online. Yep you sound like a total catch! Anyone that says they are a "catch" usually are not.
This is a fun line, because it's so easy to prove that it is a lie. Last week I sent 20 messages on match that said "Hi, you seem like an interesting woman. And so we see that what this woman says is a lie. If you still think she's not lying, try if for yourself and you'll see. The problem with Match is that most of the profiles are inactive. The people you messaged probably never saw it to begin with. The best way to get your foot in the door is to find something in their profile to start a conversation about. Ask them an open-ended question so they start talking about that and themselves.
Say they list Adele as one of the musicians they like. You could say something like, "What do you think of Adele's new album whatever? I think her best effort on it was whatever song because What is your opinion? I mean at least it shows you read her profile AND it is a conversation starter. It would be like saying, "Do you want to go see some movie? It's like when women give you that infamous piece of advice to "just be yourself" I think you should do some research on what the differences in amounts of grey and white matter mean.
Your interpretation of the difference between genders and the effect it has on how women think is skewed and not fact based. It does account for why men are better at math and women are better language skills, but it does not mean that women make decisions based on feelings. Maybe you want to believe that, but it does not make it true. Your relative is exactly the wrong example to use for why online dating is bad for women.
That's not nearly enough time. Yes, it's creepy that men twice her age were hitting on her, that shouldn't even be allowed. There should be a filter and I think there are more of those now. Are there going to be total weirdos sending you messages? Yes, but you have the option to ignore every new e-mail as a woman.
That means a woman can spend an hour writing five emails to the "perfect" matches they're looking for. They'll get one response and likely that guy will ask her out within a week. If you don't like the creepy emails, don't read them! Men on the other hand have no other option then to send out hundreds of emails and they better be more then just, "Hey, I love your smile in that one photo and we have this, this, this in common. You have to "perform" for them and they have to get your sense of humor through text. Then if you're good looking and tall at least 6'3' because they're going to assume you're adding three inches you've got a shot.
And even then they might blow you off because they don't want to tell people they met their boyfriend online. I just deleted my profile on OKCupid and I'll tell you why I received many messages from men, some creepy messages Seems that a lot of men are quite happy to remain behind a screen and those who are up to meeting right away are seeking sex..
One man messaged me and stated he found my profile interesting that we had much in common, we messaged back and forth and then he asked for my cell so we could chat Probably because some other woman was more willing to meet up and cut in front of you without the needless back and forth. Yeah, this seems pretty spot on. For women its a barrage of messages and makes them think thery're god's on Earth, no matter how ugly. For men it's a quiet hole to realize women are a lot more shallow than they knew, no matter how attractive.
This makes the women bat way above their league and the men bat way below.
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The best part to illustrate this? I'd say all of the women I message first are at least around my physical attractiveness league, but all the women that message me first are way, waaaay below it. Like obese chicks levels below it. Now if there was a way you could fix this by making an environment that gave men the upper hand and not women Maybe it'd be more balanced. But as it is systems where men get the same features as women on dating sites are stupid asymmetric in terms of payback.
Women get crazy shallow and men get crazy depressed. Interesting idea, but not my experience. I get my fair share of messages.. I'm pretty good looking by most standards, though I'm fully aware I'm not the most attractive, and I often find messages from men who are far less physically attractive than the men I've dated IRL some of whom I've met online! Of all the men, most find my profile interesting and say so, even if there's a blatantly obvious comment about interests, what we're seeking, or looks that should make it obvious that we aren't compatible.
It's like they ignore it and try, anyway. Perhaps again, based solely on my experiences if they spent time seeking and messaging women who seemed like they'd be mutually compatible not just that they find good looking then they'd have more success. I would certainly not waste my time messaging men who I figured wouldn't be interested. It's not genuine, and not a good use of time and energy. First of all, saying "not my experience" is wrong in this case. You seem to have had success as a woman on these dating sites. If you are new to online dating, being aware of rejection will help you in the process.
That will help you deal with any potential conflicts you might have in the future and here are some points that will help:. You have been rejected by one person, but look at the people who have accepted you. Rarely are rejections personal, especially in dating. The main factors come down to individual wants, rather than needs.
Did their lifestyle suit yours? Aspects of their personal life that you have reservations about? More often than not a rejection is actually best for both people, so be happy you got away. Rejected by one person? A nice tip a psychologist passed to me was this.